Curse

Mouse at Large · Sep 07, 2010, 03:12 PM // 15:12

I love the mentality of "something actually works well....NERF IT!!!!!" I never play primary Rit, but am perfectly happy to group with them.

As has been already stated, spirit spamming is not equivalent to Ursan/SF etc. There can only be one (or at most 2 if they co-ordinate) per team.

Sure, it opens up some solo farming opportunities as well, but is that really something to get all huffy about these days????

In conclusion, I'm in no hurry to see anything concerning the current Rit builds nerfed.

TheodenKing · Sep 07, 2010, 03:24 PM // 15:24

Quote:

Originally Posted by veteran_player

I been gone all summer and I came back to find that the game is deader than ever......Ursan and Shadowform killed it for the majority , but there are still some people around......Seriously isn't it time to say enough is enough......There is no one out playing in mission zones anymore....The only place you can hope to get a group is in the daily Z-mission area......and you can't play there either because there are always 7 million sos rits waiting to play for you......Can't we just have gameplay back for a little while........? Please ?

Exaggerate much? It's ok to want gimmick builds gone, but understand that the creative energy at anet is focused on gw2. Don't expect too many more drastic changes to gw unless it is intended to facilitate the storyline of gw2.

We're expecting a derv skill balance update soon, but after that, I wouldn't expect too much other than bug fixes and pre-programmed event content.

Karate Jesus · Sep 07, 2010, 03:33 PM // 15:33

Wait, spirit spamming is OP?

I didn't know that taking an hour to farm Nic items, or being a niche role in elite area builds makes you OP.

Pretty sure it's not THAT amazing. It's definitely nice to run, but running defensive spirits still isn't as good as protting, and running offensive spirits still isn't as good as discordway/mesmers.

afya · Sep 07, 2010, 03:35 PM // 15:35

yes SOS is OP, but at least my hero can bring that and u can only have one in "radar". imo, it is less harmful than ursan or SF

Morphy · Sep 07, 2010, 03:35 PM // 15:35

If you nerf SoS, another gimmick will take its place. Waste of time.

Scary · Sep 07, 2010, 03:36 PM // 15:36

Quote:

Originally Posted by veteran_player

I been gone all summer and I came back to find that the game is deader than ever......

Ursan and Shadowform killed it for the majority , but there are still some people around......

Seriously isn't it time to say enough is enough......

There is no one out playing in mission zones anymore....

The only place you can hope to get a group is in the daily Z-mission area......

...........and you can't play there either because there are always 7 million sos rits waiting to play for you......

Can't we just have gameplay back for a little while........?

Please ?

NO... Why ??????????????????

jees a other nerf,, kill SoS and even more people wil drop the game.
Give more nerf less... that is how to keep the players

Voodoo Rage · Sep 07, 2010, 04:05 PM // 16:05

I think SoS is fine by the very nature that you can only have one type of spirit active at all times. It's not like there is a "SoS-way" where everyone has identical builds and rolls through elite areas (like they did with Ursan). Most solo farms involving SoS are fairly slow and tedious, definitely not something that will ever "break the economy".

Gill Halendt · Sep 07, 2010, 04:14 PM // 16:14

Quote:

Originally Posted by Scary

Give more nerf less... that is how to keep the players

Actually, that's more like "Put less demented skills in the game and you'll never need to nerf anything"

jazilla · Sep 07, 2010, 04:33 PM // 16:33

Quote:

Originally Posted by veteran_player

I been gone all summer and I came back to find that the game is deader than ever......

Ursan and Shadowform killed it for the majority , but there are still some people around......

Seriously isn't it time to say enough is enough......

There is no one out playing in mission zones anymore....

The only place you can hope to get a group is in the daily Z-mission area......

...........and you can't play there either because there are always 7 million sos rits waiting to play for you......

Can't we just have gameplay back for a little while........?

Please ?

with a name like "VeteranPlayer" I would have guessed that you would like builds that cater to the solo player because you arent concerned with missions and what not anymore. I love builds like this because farming and PvP are what I do now. I don't do missions anymore. I don't need to. I am done with them because I am a Veteran Player. If solo farming and PvP bored me, guess what? I would stop playing. You may just have to find a different game. You may just be over it.

Essence Snow · Sep 07, 2010, 04:42 PM // 16:42

Quote:

Originally Posted by Karate Jesus

It's definitely nice to run, but running defensive spirits still isn't as good as protting, and running offensive spirits still isn't as good as discordway/mesmers.

Pretty sure spiritway>discord 90% of the time.

gremlin · Sep 07, 2010, 04:59 PM // 16:59

The main problem with all of these skill rebalancing nerfs or whatever is they always always cause as many problems as they fix.

GW2 is the fix and we should just await its coming and all GW1 needs to do is hold its ground and provide a fairly interesting play arena till that happens.
Not worth putting a huge effort into achieving some perfect state for GW1 that will bring back the golden days when all was good.

The problem as I see it was that changes needed to be made so whatever class you played there was likely to be a place for you in both pvp and pve.
The trouble was in many cases all that was needed in a team was someone to cover a missing class with their secondary pick.

Right from day one of designing the classes it should have been set up so a secondary class was about 10% as powerful as a primary, usable yes but not anywhere near as powerful.

Hopefully we will not get this stupidity happening in GW2

Lanier · Sep 07, 2010, 05:18 PM // 17:18

I agree completely that SoS needs a nerf. They shouldn't kill it, only make it slightly less powerful. Think about the last nerf that SoS recieved. It wasn't a very big nerf but it was one nonetheless. I think if anet nerfed SoS once again with a nerf of the same magnitude as the last one, things would be fine.

I don't see how you can deny that SoS is OP. It does a rediculous amount of damage and while it isn't as abuseable as skills with effects that can be stacked, it is still too flat out powerful. Even an elite skill that can cause a shitload of armor ignoring damage, a rediculous amount of energy management with just one of two energy management spells (spirit siphon or boon of creation) and extra bodies for the enemy to target... that is just flat out overpowered. There is a reason why spiritway is so popular nowadays. I use it over discordway (then again i wouldnt use discordway anyway cause i dont like necros), and i have seen how devestating an army of spirits can be.

I would be far more happy with my main character if the following nerfs happened:

SoS - only two spirits are summoned, raise the stats of the two spirits to what they originally were. (in other words, you have the capability to create two spirits of pain for free every 30 seconds)

In my opinion, that would nicely balance SoS as an elite.

While we are discussing ritualist skills that need nerfing:

Destructive was Gaive - Raise recharge to 15 sec

This way DwG can be used like it was intended to be used (for the armor penetration for other channeling spells)

Spirit Siphon - Raise recharge to 8 sec

I think many of us would agree that without investing an elite in energy management, you shouldn't be able to easily get unlimeted energy.

Summon Spirits - Tie the number of spirits teleported to the lux/kurz rank (ex: 1 spirit is teleported at ranks 1-2, 2 spirits at ranks 3-8 and 3 spirits at ranks 8 or 9 +)

NerfHerder · Sep 07, 2010, 05:23 PM // 17:23

I think I know what the OP is talking about. Everyone has a Rt (nowadays) and some of them play Rt exclusively. I think the problem is with people that will only play thier Rt now. The other problem is that all you have to do is set up your spirits and your done, easiest job in the game. My Rt hardly sees any play time with PUGs because there will most likely be two other people trying to go as a Rt. And I find it boring to only play one profession. I dont think the Rt should get nerfed into oblivion. If other classes became more appealing, it might change some things. At least I'm seeing more Mesmers now.

My pet peave is people that use SoS that are not primary Rts(not a game changer, just a personal feeling). But, I'm on the fence as to how to fix this. If you tie spirit levels and damage closer to Spawning Power, that would fix it. But then again that would kill my favorite Hero build SoS/Resto.

I think it would take a combination of fixing all the things myself and others have talked about to fix this problem. Buff underused/underpowered professions. Lower levels of spirits. Increase casting times of spirits, mostly by fractions of a second. Lower the damage of spirits. Reduce duration of spirits, so Rts actually have something to do. Give Spawning Power the ability to raise the levels, damage, and duration of spirits. If the net duration, damage, and levels of spirits were about 15-25% less than than they are now with about 12 in Spawning power, we might see a more level playing field. Im sure there are better suggestions that would fix this, as my suggestions would take ALOT of work. And with how long its been since the last update,i wouldnt hold your breath.

Grj · Sep 07, 2010, 05:25 PM // 17:25

Quote:

Originally Posted by Gill Halendt

Actually, that's more like "Put less demented skills in the game and you'll never need to nerf anything"

Best cancel the upcoming dervish update then

Ayuhmii Shanbwa · Sep 07, 2010, 05:27 PM // 17:27

yea nerf more and lose more people, great idea
spirit spam is also a team build, meaning that 1 in a team can be used very well
overpowered? no way, it just works better than other certain builds

just cuz its better than some other builds, it doesnt mean its overpowered
cuz if that was the case, give every skill at least 50% sac. and 25 energy cost, so that no "strong" builds can be made (THIS IS NOT SERIOUS)

let SoS stay like it is, and people have "fun" with it, its not overpowered, it cant solo just anything, just a few places, and thats NOT the "skill" but the "builds"

lets quit being angry at every single "good" skill/build and continue playing the game
about spirits btw, let em buff the protective spirits, as i lose too much energy and they die too fast for HM to be a good use

sry for the offtopic part, but let the game stay nice, so it wont die just yet, cuz even after gw2 release many people will play it

Lanier · Sep 07, 2010, 06:29 PM // 18:29

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ayuhmii Shanbwa

yea nerf more and lose more people, great idea
spirit spam is also a team build, meaning that 1 in a team can be used very well
overpowered? no way, it just works better than other certain builds

just cuz its better than some other builds, it doesnt mean its overpowered
cuz if that was the case, give every skill at least 50% sac. and 25 energy cost, so that no "strong" builds can be made (THIS IS NOT SERIOUS)

let SoS stay like it is, and people have "fun" with it, its not overpowered, it cant solo just anything, just a few places, and thats NOT the "skill" but the "builds"

lets quit being angry at every single "good" skill/build and continue playing the game
about spirits btw, let em buff the protective spirits, as i lose too much energy and they die too fast for HM to be a good use

sry for the offtopic part, but let the game stay nice, so it wont die just yet, cuz even after gw2 release many people will play it

I dont think skills should be balanced around their ability/inability to solo so im not going to discuss that.

... but SoS isnt just a "good" skill. It is a terrific skill. It does a lot of damage, which is all armor ignoring. It creates three extra bodies, which really is the best form of passive party defense. Finally, it allows the rit to pretty much never have energy management problems. Spirit Siphon or boon of creation in a non-SoS build are fine but when you have the capability to create three spirits for free, those skills just make it way too easy to manage energy. SoS is probably one of the best single player builds out there right now (along with minion masters) if for nothing else because of the shear amount of damage it can pump out. When you factor in the extra bodies (and thus extra passive party defense) and the fact that all of this can be done without the rit suffering from energy problems at all... i mean i dont see how you can't call that overpowered.

gremlin · Sep 07, 2010, 06:34 PM // 18:34

The spirit spam build isn't actually that powerful its only the inability of the computer ai that lets it shine so well.

Stick your spirit wall up against raptors esp in hard mode and they will take them down in seconds.
Again there are skills designed to bust spirits its just people do not use them and neither does the pve opposition well not often.

Most area effect spells wipe them quickly esp the Monks Ray of Judgement, of course you can space out your spirits but this slows down the creation and when you use summon spirits it bunches them up again.

Gaze of fury takes an enemy spirit and gives you an allied spirit.

There are also a few attack spells that are better when used on summoned creatures, consume soul is a good one there are probably more.

Finally a decent ranger can blow them away from outside their attack range

They are good but not unbeatable so what's the problem.

Tullzinski · Sep 07, 2010, 06:39 PM // 18:39

Sigh, is it that time already to start the nerf build/skill XXXXXX again? Why don't we just revisit the old nerf shadowform threads for all the same arguements and save some time.

I will say it again it is a never ending cycle. ANET please do not continue to feed the cycle and fall into this trap it is a massive waste of time.

After the Derv update can we expect the same thread for whatever the awesome new OP Derv build is. I think we can.

Make it stop people.

Save it for GW2.

Xiaquin · Sep 07, 2010, 06:47 PM // 18:47

Quote:

Originally Posted by Voodoo Rage

I think SoS is fine by the very nature that you can only have one type of spirit active at all times. It's not like there is a "SoS-way" where everyone has identical builds and rolls through elite areas (like they did with Ursan). Most solo farms involving SoS are fairly slow and tedious, definitely not something that will ever "break the economy".

Before spirit spamming, you had to run with a minion master. They are high energy, highly spec'd, have lengthy cast times (lagging behind) and require corpses to work. Spirits are cheap, fast, quickly replaceable, come out of thin air and any secondary can run it. That, right there, is OP. Ignore the farms, it displaced much of the fun and challenge of the game.

Ka Tet · Sep 07, 2010, 06:56 PM // 18:56

2 things.
1. Not everyone is making the leap to WoW-clone, er GW2, so updates are still good.
2. Is there really a point to balancing PvE? If someone enjoys playing something in PvE, let them. They're not hurting anyone; ai doesn't have feelings.